Game Progression, stand size, and flight requirements

I wanted to take a look at how game progression goes as of right now and see if there are any ways which things can be re-arranged, streamlined, or changed. I believe that in a lot of early access games the idea of feature creep takes place and things that have been in place for some amount of time are just glossed over. I’m as guilty as anyone for wanting or dreaming up features to add to the game, so I thought it would be good for me to first just look at the game as it is and see if the base needs anything changed. I’m also fairly new into the game so I don’t have the experience of small changes like many on here have had.

So for this I’m not going to propose any sort of sweeping changes. Most of what I might suggest would be smaller tweaks with the possible exception of one or two things. I’m also going to try and leave off systems that are not necessarily core to the game but I might drop in examples of how a change in something I think is a core part of the game could enhance a non-core part. I’m also coming at this from the view point of an American that has only traveled through major airports. I’m going to be mindful that things don’t work like that in all airports and try to balance the view out to a more generic view. I’m also warning you, this is going to be long. So if you want to read this grab a beverage and a snack.

As I see the game progression as of right now is this for the first few play throughs someone may do. You set up your runway then set up GA stands and away you go so you can enjoy planes coming and going. You’ll then add in AVGAS and get used to how the stand services work. After that you get into trying to build a terminal and using small stands for how PAX moves through the terminal and how staff flows. Once you have a good handle on that you add in staff rooms and food shops and things like that. Then the last two things that you eventually move on to are medium stands and all the services that brings in before you finally add in a baggage system. After the first few times it is likely that you ignore GA entirely and go straight to the commercial aspects of the game.

Within the current progression system I see two difficulty spikes. The first is the jump to the medium stand and the next is the jump to baggage. The jump to a medium stand is due to the extra PAX that come in and the extra staff and services you need. Suddenly you need two check-in desks for each stand (and likely two boarding desks for each stand) and your security may need to be expanded. Then you have the addition of the extra equipment like a stair truck and pushback truck that you didn’t need before. The difficulty spike in the baggage phase comes in the form of the new service trucks and also the sudden explosion in ramp agents required (since agents now basically need to be at each stand for the entire length of time the plane is there).

That leads me to what can be done to mitigate the spikes in difficulty for newer players while introducing the new ideas to them. First, I think there needs to be a restructuring of plane classes. Right now we have small, medium, and (eventually) large. The small class has planes that are normally 10 PAX with the largest being 20 (in real life, best I can tell). The medium class has planes that IRL seat anywhere from 48 (the ATR) up to 228 (the 757-200). The first time through you aren’t going to be prepared for the sheer amount of PAX you’ll get when one stand is pulling enough PAX for 10 to 20 of your other stands.

That leads me to the idea of breaking off the CRJ, ATR, Q400, and the BAE (maybe). The ATR is already an outlier in that IRL it has a range similar to the two small planes and a capacity in between small class and the rest of the similar size medium class. To be fair, the ATR 72 makes more sense than the 42, but that is an entirely different argument. The BAE (I believe) needs a stair truck which puts it at odds with the other three listed. The idea behind grouping these planes together would be that the difficulty would ramp up somewhat in that you needed a bigger stand, a pushback truck, a longer runway, and more PAX. If the BAE was changed or omitted you also wouldn’t need these to require the use of a jetway or stair truck. There is also the argument that you could put these on a stand that is in between the current small and medium stands. Where I’m at in the US regional jets are in the CRJ, Q400 size range and sit on smaller stands than everything else you see in the medium class. If you look at a satellite photo of PHL (Philadelphia International) the top most terminal is the regional terminal and you can see the stand sizes are much smaller. I’m ok with leaving them on the medium stand, it is just an idea. I also think that the runway length needs to be shorter for these planes (IRL they are around 5000 M required while the next shortest is the A319 at 6000). It should be enough to introduce the player to the concept of runway expansion but not requiring the purchase of new land. The 750k needed for land purchase usually results in a loan and the subsequent realization that loans are expensive and you needed more than you budgeted for.

The second spike is the baggage addition. I think the easiest way to mitigate that is in concert with the first change. Right now the only thing any of the requirements (Jet Fuel, Baggage, etc) matter for is the star rating in offered flights. You can get plenty of flights without baggage and when you add it nothing changes except complexity and a bit more money (plus every flight wanting baggage claim use). Jet Fuel should be a barrier to getting any flights except very cheap small stand flights. Once that happens (and you build an appropriate stand) those CRJ size flights should be available. Once you build a baggage system for your existing airport and flights then the bigger A319 and up flights open up. That gives you an incentive to actually build baggage earlier than normal, eases players in to new concepts, and is more realistic (when is an A319 coming in with no checked bags?).

One other thing I think that would work in conjunction with this would be to change how small stand flights are generated. Both the Cessna and DHC-6 are not a common commercial plane. If you look at the numbers in service for the DHC, 61 are operated out of the Maldives and 15 are operated by an airline in Southwest USA doing flyovers of the Grand Canyon. No other airline has more than 10. Small aircraft should still be available but they should be limited to only a few airlines in game and should only have a few local flights. There could be some extra every few days (to be like charter flights) but the real workhorse of a regional airport should be the CRJ size planes. Most airlines don’t operate anything under the 70 passenger size because it isn’t profitable. For game purposes and role-playing they need to be in and I like them being there, just shouldn’t be able to run an airport on those flights alone. Would also give you a reason to use GA flights since most days you’d want them on your small stands to make you some money.

Again, these are just my opinions on how I think things could be changed around in order to streamline the game a bit and to, hopefully, help newer players understand the newer concepts they need to learn. Mitigating frustration and letting players understand what is going on when the difficulty goes up is important but also not the easiest thing to do. Factorio has been struggling for years to mitigate the issue of their “blue science difficulty spike”. They have found that the jump in complexity at that point in the game is where they lose players so for years they have been trying to fix that part to make it easier to retain players at that transition. As this game gets more and more complex it will become more important to try and even out any difficulty spikes.

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Good read. I’ve actually looked though the community generated data created by @pderuiter and @EG0611 amongst all of the other contributors to this amazing project. Your comments about planes and their PAX carrying capacities I’ve looked at extensively. I was searching for something between the single digit PAX to the larger numbers of even the smaller planes that would fit a small stand. It seems there is very little that is actually used.

I drop the 750K for another of parcel of land however I know most would probably not do that to get the longer runway.

I completely agree! It is too big of a jump… cessna to 757?? It would be really great if the regional airport of the tutorial and progression was more regional-esc. I think the inability to have a true regional airport with crj’s and some bigger prop planes is a real miss in an airport’s progression for realism and easy of play. In order to grow from small stands to finally having mediums stands, I would just put the game on triple speed and leave for an hour in order to get enough money to buy everything that was needed. Thats not super fun.

I also really like the idea that to get the bigger planes, you need baggage! The incentives for building baggage are not enough. Currently, I really only implement baggage after the airport if running great and I start getting bored, because it is tedious and time consuming, and expensive as hell! But if it led to getting the big boys, then I am all in, and it is more realistic. Like you said, what A319 is coming in with no baggage?

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Many small planes are GA, so if you want to keep the GA aspect of the game, you’d need those to hang around.

Like your thoughts. I think the majority of what you suggest is tweaking and tuning the current game, as most of it is there already only not configured/setup in that way. In the current Alpha stage it’s more focussed on getting the features in, solve bugs and stabilise the game, I can imagine that in the Beta phase these changes could be made.

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Thanks for this, later on I will add some thoughts of my own.

in the current progression system I see two difficulty spikes. The first is the jump to the medium stand and the next is the jump to baggage. The jump to a medium stand is due to the extra PAX that come in and the extra staff and services you need. Suddenly you need two check-in desks for each stand (and likely two boarding desks for each stand) and your security may need to be expanded. Then you have the addition of the extra equipment like a stair truck and pushback truck that you didn’t need before. The difficulty spike in the baggage phase comes in the form of the new service trucks and also the sudden explosion in ramp agents required (since agents now basically need to be at each stand for the entire length of time the plane is there).

If you ask me, we should be able to have baggage handling enabled on an airport for a smaller number of stands. So; only a stand that has a proved connection (in and out) should demand baggage services from the check-in desk. When you do it this way, you dont have to build 7 carousels at once for a fast build airfield that is needed to cross barrier 2. It costs about 2 to 3 million in cash to build this; and then you dont even have a secure system setup; only base lines, base vehicles.

If you could build it wing by wing, the auto scheduler could auto plan 3 star flights on stands that have the “baggage-check” complete and put other flights on other stands. This way, you could connect a wing at a time, in stead of your whole airport. Besides that, it would also be much easier to test baggage systems when speed-building in Internal or Experimental builds.

Also, we really need Count() summaries on carousels. Atm you cannot see how many check-in desks or stands are connected to a carousel, so you have no idea if you need to connect more. When your airport has 4 area’s unlocked, you loose track of the number of connections, due to the vast distances between check in and the stands. This would really make baggage life easier.

In the long distance; a total count board would be great to. A board with a count on total GA stands, total Commercial stands (S/M/L), total security stations (maybe with max throughput estimate), total check-in capacity, etc.

After the first few times it is likely that you ignore GA entirely and go straight to the commercial aspects of the game.

In easy mode, you can start with medium gates directly. You can even skipp small gates.

I actually queried this with Olof the other day about having check-in desks with connections to baggage bays and not having them. He said it should check and then cancel if not, so something that does require investigation.

How about instead of the star requirements for planes being met at the airport level they are met at the stand level? Right now you get one star flights until you activate the Jet Fuel and the upgraded small stand, then you get three stars with medium security and baggage. Move that down to the stand level and you can only put two star flights on upgraded stands that have access to jet fuel and three star flights on stands that are connected to a baggage system. The other requirements could be put at the airport level. So if you have ATC, security, and other base systems the airport gets a one star rating. Add Jet Fuel it jumps to two star and add baggage for three star. I also think that small stands should only be rated for 1 or 2 stars. I could be wrong but I just don’t see there being baggage service to a claim area on Cessna. I mean, does that or the DHC-6 even have an actual cargo hold? Medium stands, on the other hand, would be two stars and up as I think that most of those size jets would want fuel service. Then within that you can subdivide out star requirements for certain types of planes (like A319 and up being three star planes).

You could and I have. GA flights need a rework at some point to be more worthwhile early on while small gates need to be rethought entirely on the commercial end of the game regardless. I’m all for having them in and I think they serve an important role, but as they stand now they are broken. Let’s look at the small stand vs the medium stand using a normal day (no night flights), the default charges, and a bonus of 3500 per flight (and ignoring fuel because that is too variable to really figure out). You can fit 5 flights in to a single day on a small stand and we’ll assume an average of 6 people a flight (this depends on settings and planes, obviously). Each flight makes about 4480 and with 5 flights that is an income of 22400. A medium stand can fit 4 flights and if we assume an average of 100 people that means 9500 a flight with a total income of 38000. Sounds good up until you realize that 2 small stands fit in the space of a medium stand so that brings up the income to a total of 44800 for the same space used. Plus you don’t need a pushback truck or a stair truck. So for 120k in cost you get more money than 150k in cost (160k if you use a jetway). In order for one medium stand to compete with 2 small stands it would need to average 157 people arriving and departing (compare that to 12 for the small stands).

If small stands weren’t so profitable there would be a reason to use GA for a bit early in the game to supplement income. Also, if there weren’t so many small flights there would be a reason to use GA to sit on stands when they weren’t in use. Again, I want to keep GA and small stands in the game but they really need to be worked in better with the game and how it progresses. If done right small stands that see intermitent use would be the perfect way to introduce the idea of remote stands while also making them something useful (to me that is. As an American remote stands are a concept that I have never seen yet alone used).

I do as well, but even with 2 million it hampers what you can do early game. Couple that with how much money you can make with small stands (see above) it really doesn’t male any sense. I think decoupling plane class (small, medium, etc) with runway length and making it plane specific might work better. Put an in game chart in the area where the glossary is that explains plane types, capacities, stand size, and runway length requirements. Turning runways on and off for certain plane types would be a little more annoying though, but there is probably a decent way to handle that.

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I found that you can scale faster with medium as start booster. When you have the infra for medium planes, you can spend all your money and still have medium flight access. When you build a huge small stands wing, it takes a long while before you save 750k to unlock and then upgrade the runway.

Couple that with how much money you can make with small stands (see above) it really doesn’t male any sense

I find them to be quite wasteful. Yes, you get the 4k for the departure, but you only get the $400 per landing and takeoff and the fuel fees (a huge source of revenue) is negligible at best. Then the 7 passengers don’t buy stuff. I find they tend to gum up the works. While I had 7 of them initially, I have long since left them behind as a hindrance.

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