Problems with induced demand (public transport)

Hi, new to the game (70+ hours already) , and enjoying it so far.

I have managed to build a rather large airport : 2 terminals, 5 large stands, 12 medium stands, 6 small stands + general aviation.
Everything runs smoothly : queing in security, in check-ins, boarding, planes leave with no delay. Live is good.

BUT I have a huge issue with public transportation.

I think I have created an induced demand that is making users use MASSIVELY the car-stops, taxi stops, and bus stops.
Unfortunately, as I have massively build those infrastructures to give my passengers options, it seems that they over-abuse it, to the point they collapse the taxi, bus, and car stops.

I have also 3 subway entrances and a massive parking lot, that was full before building those stops, and now it’s almost empty (which gives some stress to cashflow, but now att 22M€ cash, I really can’t complain.

So, to summarize :

  • Users prefer car stop over parking
  • Users prefer taxi and bus over subway

If I close massively car, taxi and bus stops to induce demand over subway and parking, passengers do not arrive.

Anyone experiencing the same issues?

This is a difficult part of the game to properly balance and something we’ll have to continue to look at until the full release. Some relief to these systems will be probably be sorted when we introduce multiple world entrances however it’s not going to fix the entire thing. On the other hand, the way you’ve built that arrival looking at that screenshot doesn’t seem realistic and it’s sort of handling the way its designed. I’ve never seen any large airport rely so much on car drop offs and so little on railway, yes you have a lot of parking lots but not a lot of parked vehicles. The system in place analyzes supply and demand between the different types of structures and with a huge amount of car drop offs there’ll be a lot of passengers expecting to be able to leave via those but that’ll no doubt cause a lot of clogging. There’s one thing that isn’t taken into account today, the number of vehicles arriving for a certain transit structure, which is something we’ll add during beta but even despite that this type of setup will never perform optimally. Larger airports require more subway entrances which causes more expenses and requires more income and so forth, all part of the design of the game.

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Hi Olof,

Thanks a lot for your comments … it’s been a while I didn’t enjoy that much a sim game :wink:
So do you suggest substituting a lot of those car drop offs for parkings instead?
Should I build more underground railway stations? I assumed that building more than a couple for each terminal should be enough…

For the time being I suggest removing a lot of those car drop offs and replacing them with subways, yes. I have added two issues for beta 4 that will see to relieve some of these problems but it will simply not work very well with that many car drop offs at this point and most likely never as you are encouraged to play subways when the airport grows bigger.

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I remember that when Subways were introduced, they used to “consume” up to 70% of pax. Now, with car parks, everything gets jammed with the world entry. Deffinitely to re-balance. I have only 6 medium stands and with 4 subways the world gets jammed.

I have this issue with the car stops, too (although I have a lot of subway entrances). In my opinion there are two main probelmes:

  • The first one is, that the red markers indicate, that the car stops are overcroweded. So the natural players reaction is to build more of them. But more car stops even worsen the situation!
  • The secons is, that the more vehicle transit structures you have, the less cars arrvive at the airport per structrure (Because there is a physical limit on how many cars can enter the airport via the tiny road entry; however this limit is reached very soon).

This means: The more car stops, the worse. But currently the red sign indicate to bulit more car stops…

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Do you think 10 subway stations for my airport size is enough?

I guess this is one of the most crucial things to be ironed out. The game is about an airport thus handling passengers for money. Instead of having burning planes or other disasters the passenger transit should run smoothly before all. This is a problem emerged since the game introduced large planes so we handle a big number of PAX now. To quote Ilondru: “are 10 subway stations enough?” - this is enough proof to show the current mechanism is handling the passengers inadequately. ONE subway station should be enough for any airport, two maybe if the terminals are separated over a large space.

In my opinion the game would have fared better without emergencies (because they cause other problems not solved in a satisfying manner: I am talking flight schedule disruption here wtihout opportunity to reserve stands for emergencies) for the time being and with proper PAX simulation instead since we have them in the game already and their behavior is causing problems (only growing since introduction of large planes). At least the priority should have been on this particular topic instead of fire trucks and ambulances.

Well, it might be unfair to speak that opinion with hindsight, but it is still my opinion reflecting my skepticism toward the last expansion of the game and I feel proven by the current circumstances. I really hope the devs will find a way to iron this out because currently it feels like too much was done to placate too many without dealing with the problems such things cause. I am sorry, if I am a bit too much outspoken - not wanting to step on anyone’s feet but still wanting to voice my unfiltered opinion on the state of affairs.

Wishing the best for bug hunting and lots of creativity to the devs nevertheless.

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We should have a counter somewhere, that tells us, if we can handle demand / in + out flux.

Still, spamming Subway entrances should not be a solution to the current problem. I was reminded of transport fever games where you could place bus and train stops for several lines and people just stacked there waiting in the general platforms without making a strange queue. I would suggest looking at other games coping with passengers and how they do it. Doing a conga line does not feel right. Staying at a platform using shelters , seating and whatnot should be the way to go. Then, however, I do not know how to implement ideas like this in this particular game. But I know it can be done better as I own other games where this aspect is tackled in ‘the right way’.

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Totally agree that Transport Fever is a good example of stop/platform use. We still have problem with the inbound traffic though. I use extensively the flight management (?) panel - shortcut G. Can let you know well in advance if you have problem with arriving passengers, but other indications are also welcome.

At one point in the game’s development, I had used subway stations, 1 or 2, almost exclusively and it was glorious. Then at some point, I stopped, I don’t recall way, but it was somehow related to a change made in one of the major updates. They stopped picking the subway stations and started really lining up at the bus stops.

If pax drop points are outside of a “terminal” do they all arrive and go their intended direction? I have noticed recently that if the vehicle compoents are not a part of the terminal, they pax get the “cannot find a way out of the airport” error message. I’d love to have a subterranean subway system build out that serves the entire airport, but with the terminal system currently extending through all levels, it’s logistically difficult and creates problems of locating said infrastructure under a terminal , but serving all terminals.

Just to update on the topic

  • I cancelled all car stops
  • I increased taxi and bus stops
  • I increased subway stations

Result is the following:

  • Road traffic is only taxis and buses. No private cars, despite having ginormous parking (paying space)
  • Subway assumes the private car usage
  • Employees still use private car (I reserved a lot of parking space for employees)
  • Taxis and bus stops are at low capacity (taxis offen 2-3 people waiting, buses often 5 to 15 people waiting)

It’s rather weird, because airports rely a lot on private car usage, but it works rather well, and congestion is acceptable.

As I said we’ll continue to look at this issue and make balancing adjustments throughout beta! :slight_smile:

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Just an idea, for now, what if you move all service vehicles to another (underground) entree?